Chicago Teachers' Union Normalizes Dehumanizing Charter Schools

". . .we recognize that many families have come to depend on charter schools and that many charter school teachers are dedicated professionals who serve their students well. . . .We do not, therefore, call for the immediate closure of all charter schools. . ." Diane Ravitch's NPE Position Statement on Charter Schools, 2017

In a deep bow to the corporate ed reformers who control the DNC's education agenda, as well as NEA and AFT,  Diane Ravitch's NPE last year set out a policy statement on charter schools that would leave in place thousands of charter schools for years to come. 

The NPE statement is clear with regards to the continued support for 7,000+ dehumanizing and unregulated charters, which are bleeding out state and local education budgets wherever they operate.  In an impressive show of non-leadership, the NPE statement refuses to demand or advocate a moratorium on new charters, preferring instead to suggest support for "legislation" that calls for a moratorium on new charters.

NPE's acquiescence to and support for the continuation of the charter industry's paternalistic Broken Windows model of schooling is now being played out in Chicago, where the Chicago Teachers' Union this week voted to merge with the Chicago Alliance of Charter Teachers and Staff. 

What will this mean for public education, teachers, and CTU?

Most importantly for AFT and CTU, it will mean more money in dues from charter industry "teachers," since the discounted dues that charter employees were paying to ChiACTS will be raised to what real teachers pay AFT/CTU in Chicago.  Never mind that charter industry "teachers" will continue to be exploited, overworked, underpaid, and without the benefit of the collective bargaining process that establishes pay, benefits, working conditions, and student advocacy initiatives for the rest of Chicago teachers.

The merger means, too, that CTU's omnipresent lip service to "social justice" is just more empty rhetoric.  CTU, in fact, will become accessory to the ongoing teacher and child dehumanization practices and cultural sterilization programs that are central to "no excuses" ed reform charter school paternalism.

By normalizing the operations of Chicago's charter industry patriarchy-on-steroids, CTU and AFT become entirely complicit in demeaning practices against a female dominated workforce that, historically, have been anathema to union values.  CTU's and AFT's kowtowing to the charter industry's billionaire patrons represents a truly sad outcome for teachers and children that will have ongoing implications for other union affiliates stupid and greedy enough to follow this very bad precedent.

It is hard to imagine a more destructive action to unionism than to the one taken in Chicago.  By normalizing these deprofessionalized hell schools run by ignorant young non-educators, CTU and AFT have ceded the last remaining moral high ground.  We may regard any further pronouncements by CTU/AFT about saving public education as the purest of bullshit.

Rahm Slashes Schools to Funnel Cash to Corporate Pals

The reptilian Rahm Emanuel has a conscious strategy to allow profiteers and privatizers to take over Chicago Public Schools, and he is using the money saved by starving the schools and cutting teacher pensions to provide corporate subsidies to his cronies.  David Sirota has the story:

Months after Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel said budget constraints forced him to push for pension cuts and mass school closures, an analysis of government documents reveals the city has $1.71 billion in special accounts often used to finance corporate subsidies. While the Emanuel administration has rejected open records requests for details of the subsidies, evidence suggests at least some of them have flowed to companies connected to Emanuel’s campaign donors.

The analysis conducted by the TIF Illumination Project evaluated the city’s 151 tax increment financing, or TIF, districts, which divert a share of property taxes out of accounts obligated to schools and into special accounts under the mayor’s control.

The report shows $412 million was diverted last year alone into the TIF accounts and out of traditional property tax funding streams, many of which are dedicated to the city's schools. In 21 of those districts, the report says 90 percent or more of all property taxes were diverted into the TIF accounts. . . .

Commentary by a Chicago teacher:

BY TIMOTHY MEEGAN July 30, 2013 5:42PM

On Wednesday July 24, I was physically removed from a Chicago Board of Education meeting after I waited four hours to speak for two minutes. I timed it at two minutes and five seconds, but I was not allowed to finish. While board member Henry Bienen nodded off, I tried to say what I had to say:

“…and now we are faced with budget cuts so severe that the remaining schools are left wondering how they will function at all? What the Sun-Times declares a conspiracy theory [editorial, July 21] is self-evident to me — that our schools are being starved into failure in order to justify mass privatization. Fifty schools closed and over 20 new charter schools. Three thousand layoffs and $1.6 million to bring in Teach for America novices. Another $20 million on an academy for principals. All connected, along with the CEO of CPS, to the Broad Foundation.”

It is abundantly clear that CPS’ budget crisis, underutilization crisis and now the pension crisis are manufactured to force a situation so acutely painful that the solutions of venture philanthropists will seem the only logical options. They are quietly proceeding with mass privatization against the wishes of Chicagoans and CPS parents. What may sound like a conspiracy theory to some is the reality for parents, teachers and students.

Here’s the background on the folks who are trying to take over our schools — and their ties to CPS:

The Broad Foundation is a venture philanthropy (or “Philanthropic Colonialism,” a term coined by Peter Buffett, son of Warren, in a recent New York Times op-ed), dedicated to redesigning school districts, charter proliferation and alternative teacher recruitment. Venture philanthropy is the application of business/finance principals and data-driven accountability to giving, focused on the “return on investment.” Basically, venture philanthropists do not donate unless they can shape policy decisions.

To push their radical education agenda, they operate a superintendent’s academy, help place their graduates and even cover a portion of their salaries. CEO Barbara Byrd-Bennett led and coached for the academy, continuing that work until April 2013, even as she closed 50 schools. They also have a residency program that trains district leaders, with 13 currently working at high levels in CPS.

The Broad Foundation also finances Teach for America and the principal academy in use in CPS, called SUPES. Teach for America places new college graduates in inner-city classrooms for two years with a mere five weeks of classroom training. I expect some will replace the professional career service teachers CPS laid off. CPS funds these two programs as well, to the combined total of over $21.6 million this year, in the face of steep budget cuts to neighborhood schools.

On WTTW’s Chicago Tonight on September 19, 2012, venture capitalist and Republican gubernatorial candidate Bruce Rauner explained the venture philanthropy agenda. Rauner declared his desire to “blow up” the district and create “smaller networks of schools competing for resources…through charters, contracts, and independent providers.”

The Center for Reinventing Public Education (CRPE), an education privatization think tank, calls this model a portfolio district, similar to an investment portfolio. CPS has adopted that term and, last summer, CPS’ Portfolio Office staff joined the head of the Illinois Network of Charter Schools and New Schools for Chicago for a portfolio school district meeting in Seattle. CRPE developed the student-based budgeting model CPS is putting in place this year and considers it a critical component of implementing a portfolio district.

Mayor Rahm Emanuel and his pro-privatization friends want to blow up the public education system in this city by implementing CRPE’s vision. All they lacked was the crisis to justify radical change. Solution? Make one.

First there was the bogus pretext of underutilization and mass school closures. Terms such as “right sizing” and “high quality seats” came from the Broad “School Closure Guide.” The chair of CPS’ Commission on School Utilization and Byrd-Bennett admitted the underutilization formula was flawed but CPS proceeded to close schools anyway.

CPS said its deficit was $1 billion. That’s a lot of money. CPS has not faced an “historic” deficit like this since last year, when it was $700 million. But at the end of fiscal year they ended with a surplus of $344 million. They manufacture deficits by moving money around from one reserve to another. This year, the deficit was closed with $700 million in “reserve” funds! The entire city is facing deep budget cuts. But charter and contract school budgets are up over $85 million, while the parent group Raise Your Hand reports classroom cuts exceeding $98 million and still counting. Feast for charter/contract schools, and famine for public schools.

Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said “… the best thing that happened to the education system in New Orleans was Hurricane Katrina.” Byrd-Bennett’s colleague at the Broad Foundation Neerav Kingsland, currently CEO of New Schools for New Orleans, has laid out how to develop a portfolio district in the absence of a crisis. In “An Open Letter to Urban Superintendents in the USA,” he advocates not for reform but “relinquishment” to independent school providers. Many of the details may be familiar to CPS parents:

“…take over failing schools from districts and authorize new charter schools. This will give you the pressure and cover your need to be aggressive. Then rigorously approve charters. Give the schools you do approve free facilities. Close failing schools. Repeat for five years. Then utilize alternative human capital providers to grow your talent base.”

The formula for privatizing districts is the same all over the country: Open charters operated by private organizations. Simultaneously defund neighborhood schools, declare them “failing,” and then close them. Fire certified professional teachers and replace them with temporary, unskilled TFA recruits.

But parents do not want a portfolio district. Parents want strong neighborhood public schools. We believe public education is a social service; they should be run more like a family than a business. It is wrong to operate schools as tax shelters or investment opportunities — because the profit motive distorts outcomes for children. If allowed to continue there will be no public school system in Chicago, but a system of several charter school operators whose investors will profit handsomely off of our kids. As a CPS teacher, my hands are tied. But as a parent and taxpayer, I am willing to take drastic action to save my son’s public school.

Parents and students have been calling for a boycott of school this fall. Only parents can stop this madness. A school boycott will be painful for families, but I think it is worth a parent-led debate and discussion. The alternative is too costly. Once the public schools are gone, they are gone for good.

Timothy Meegan is a nationally board certified teacher at Roosevelt High School, a Chicago public school.

Thieving charter charlatan-scoundrel Juan Rangel steps down from UNO! He was a darling of the AEI

Thieving charter charlatan-scoundrel @JuanRangel steps down from #UNO! He was a darling of @AEIeducation http://t.co/svdm81drB5

— Robert D. Skeels (@rdsathene) December 6, 2013

Via Professor Diane Ravitch: Powerful Chicago Charter Leader Resigns in Wake of Financial Scandal

My commentary: Thieving charter charlatan-scoundrel Juan Rangel was a darling of the fringe-right American Enterprise Institute (AEI). In addition to their loving his stuffing of public money into his private pockets, AEI gushed about Rangel and UNO's systematic program of right-wing indoctrination.

MS-NPR Plays Softball with Arne

Ever since NPR and PBS got serious about fund raising among the oligarchs--Gates and the Koch Bros.--their coverage has suffered and their objectivity has been thrown to the wind.  Can we imagine a more inappropriate scenario than the ecology-killing Koch Boys sponsoring PBS's most prominent science program, NOVA?  Straight out the imagination of Hunter S. Thompson, may he rest in peace.

Well, yes, I can think of something as inappropriate, at least: The Gates-owned NPR interviewing Arne Duncan about the Chicago Teachers Strike last Sunday morning.  

Scott Simon asked not a single question that did not focus on the pay increase of Chicago teachers, and Arne robotically pretended that the strike was the result of a personality clash.  The script could have been written in Redmond, WA.  Was it?

Neither interviewer of interviewee talked about the real issues behind the strike: teacher evaluation based on value-added quackery, no textbooks until Halloween, no air conditioning with 50 kids in a room, inhumane management practices and attacks on due process, the privatization of Chicago schools by turning them over to corporate welfare charter schools.

By the way, my advice to Chicago teachers:  DON'T RATIFY.  VOTE NO!  Nothing has been done in terms of removing the inherently destructive concept and practice of evaluations based on test scores--this has only been delayed and the volume turned down slightly. 

If the teacher-student relationship that has defined teaching is allowed to be destroyed in Chicago by the Gates and Broad corporate efficiency fools, this settlement, then, represents not a victory or even a draw but, rather, the death of teaching and the sacrifice of learning on the altar of more test scores.

Chicago Rage is About More Than Money or Schedules

from HuffPo by Lisa Guisbond:

CHICAGO TEACHERS SAY "NO" TO HIGH-STAKES TESTING MADNESS
Huffington Post Education -- September 13, 2012
By Lisa Guisbond

Sometimes things get so crazy in our schools that classroom educators must use their "Teacher Voice" to restore sanity. That's what is happening in Chicago, where striking public school teachers are shouting "enough is enough" to test-driven school reform schemes. The strike is just the latest, and loudest, example of the growing national resistance to failed, top-down, test-driven educational policies.

Remarkably, despite the severe disruption to the lives of Chicago families, more voters polled <http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/15081881-418/poll-47-of-chicago-registered-voters-support-teachers-in-strike.html> support the teachers than oppose them. Many parents share teachers' disgust at what a tsunami of testing has done to their children's school days. They are concerned about what has been washed away: things like art, music, phys ed and recess.

Across the nation, tens of thousands of parents, teachers, and school leaders are rising up <http://www.fairtest.org/resistance-high-stakes-testing-spreads> to resist so-called reforms based on standardized exam misuse. From Texas to Long Island and Washington to Florida, people with first-hand knowledge of the damage being done to academic quality and equity are pushing back. They want out-of-touch politicians and their funders to stop doubling down on strategies that have not worked.

The Chicago strike is the tip of the iceberg of teacher frustration. They're fed up with policies that blame educators for problems largely caused by the impoverished settings in which their students live and the city's own misguided polices. "Accountability" is the rallying cry of so-called reformers like Mayor Emanual and Education Secretary Arne Duncan. But instead of punishing front-line teachers, policy makers at the city, state and federal levels should be held accountable for their failures to create <http://www.fairtest.org/resistance-high-stakes-testing-spreads> conditions in which all children can learn.

The attempt to improve Chicago schools through increased use of high-stakes tests over the past 20 years has been a colossal failure. The damage is worst in classrooms serving the city's neediest children. (In Chicago, 80 percent <http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/chicago-teachers-union-president-brash-advocate-17222106#.UFIgSlTxpKE> of students qualify for free or reduced price lunches.) Mayor Emanuel's scheme to evaluate classroom educators based on their students' test scores <http://www.fairtest.org/sites/default/files/Pay%20for%20Test%20Scores%20Fact%20Sheet%20final.pdf>, a technique independent experts say is severely flawed, will make the situation worse. If history is a guide, it will mean more curricular narrowing, more test prep, and better teachers fleeing for the suburbs. Some will seek jobs in private schools like the ones Mayor Emanuel's children attend, the elite University of Chicago Lab School.

Several years ago, the Lab School's director, David Magill, wrote, "Physical education, world languages, libraries and the arts are not frills. They are an essential piece of a well-rounded education." To his credit, Magill sees what's going on around him and is dismayed. In a statement on the school's web site, he said <http://www.ucls.uchicago.edu/news/detail.aspx?linkid=2480&moduleid=133>, "Measuring outcomes through standardized testing and referring to those results as the evidence of learning and the bottom line is, in my opinion, misguided and, unfortunately, continues to be advocated under a new name and supported by the current [Obama] administration."

Mayor Emanuel can't say nobody told him. In March, researchers from 16 universities around Chicago sent him an open letter, saying, "The new evaluation system for teachers and principals centers on misconceptions about student growth, with potentially negative impact on the education of Chicago's children."

The world is watching Chicago and waiting to see the outcome of this high-stakes strike. Meanwhile, educators around the country along with parents, students, school board members, and others are using their teacher voices to try and move school policy in a new, better direction.

FairTest initiated the National Resolution on High-Stakes Testing (http://www.timeoutfromtesting.org/nationalresolution) as a vehicle for this growing movement. The resolution was cosponsored by the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, the United Church of Christ Justice and Witness Ministries, and Chicago Parents United for Responsible Education (PURE), among other groups. So far, more than 400 organizations and 12,000 individuals have endorsed it. If you are looking for change, add your name and your voice.

PBS-Gates News Hour Features Randi-Roy Tag Team Against Teachers

Ever since the PBS News Hour became a subsidiary of the Gates Foundation, their reporting has suffered, both in what they cover and how they cover it.  In terms of the street actions going on in Chicago, with parents, children, and teachers raising holy hell to save their schools from corporate takeover, PBS remains a distant observer, preferring to interview a polite PBS affiliate reporter two nites ago, and then, last night bringing into the studio corporate allies, Randi Weingarten in red shirt, and Roy Romer, hovering over the desk like an ancient angry reptile.  I have included the transcript of this converation below, so that you can see the disdain that Romer brings to the discussion.

For her part, Randy declared her love for the creaky Romer, who remains one of the radical advocates for Boss Tweed era education reform.  Romer hung his head and smiled as Randi told him she loved him.  How sweet.  Romer, then, acknowledged Randi as not one of those wild-eyed educators who refuses to believe in the inherent goodness of teacher evaluation based on testing, and they both agreed that their corporate compact on the Common Core testing deliver system and the test based teacher evaluation scheme made them natural allies in the national effort to corporatize and nationalize education, thus destroying the diversity of learning that has made the U. S. the creative thinking leader of the world for a long time.

Both Roy and Randi agreed that this strike business is a local matter, as did the sleepy-looking interview host, which introduces the question as to why none of the local players were there to be interviewed.  Why not Karen Lewis or George Schmidt to debate one of Rahm's lawyers or economists?

But, then, that would not be consistent with the picture that Gates wants to present, which is a picture of reconciliation that he has paid good money to achieve, going so far as to buy a keynote speaking position at the AFT Convention two years ago, along with the leadership of both unions, the NEA and the AFT.

What we know is that this is not a local issue, but that the teachers of Chicago have shown the guts, grit, and organization to challenge the Business Roundtable and the oligarchs that control education policy in Washington.  May the strike spread to every state and every city until sanity is restored.

JEFFREY BROWN: And we head back to Chicago and the national spotlight focused on a teachers strike in the nation's third largest school system.

Chicago teachers walked the picket lines for a second day as contract talks resumed. The union spokeswoman said the teachers had agreed to just six of 49 articles in the proposed contract.

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One of the most contentious remains the issue of tying teacher evaluations to student test results. Democratic Mayor Rahm Emanuel has pushed that idea and other reforms.

And on Monday, he drew support from an unlikely quarter. In Portland, Ore., Republican vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan said, "This teachers union strike is unnecessary and wrong. We know that Rahm is not going to support our campaign, but on this issue and this day, we stand with Mayor Rahm Emanuel."

The man at the top of the Republican ticket, Mitt Romney, criticized the strikers and accused President Obama of siding with them. But Mayor Emanuel, the president's former chief of staff, rejected any attempt to use the strike as a means to attack his one-time boss.

MAYOR RAHM EMANUEL, D-Chicago, Ill.: The president is committed, has done one of the most important things with Race to the Top to make sure that we have accountability in our system and the best-qualified teachers in our schools. And that's exactly what we're trying to do here.

JEFFREY BROWN: Announced in 2009, the Race to the Top competition seeks to encourage performance-based standards in state and local school districts. At least 30 states have begun using student test scores to evaluate teachers, but the move has often ignited tensions with teacher unions and administrators.

In Washington, D.C., teachers agreed to implement a merit-based pay system in 2010, and New York state educators did the same earlier this year. But those agreements were reached only after years of difficult negotiations.

And, in Los Angeles, the union and school district officials are now in talks over how to implement a new teacher evaluation system.

And for more, we're joined by Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, whose membership include the Chicago Teachers Union.

And Roy Romer, who served as superintendent of the Los Angeles Unified School District from 2001 to 2006 and before that as governor of Colorado. He's currently senior adviser to the College Board.

Randi Weingarten, I want to start with you.

When you look at the Chicago strike -- and I know you're out there now in Chicago -- what are the one or two more most important issues that you find resonating at the national level that affect teachers everywhere?

RANDI WEINGARTEN, American Federation of Teachers: Right.

It's really about the -- saving the heart and soul of public education for all kids who need public education. And when you're on the streets talking to teachers, they are determined to have the tools they need to help kids and for kids to have the resources they need to succeed.

And what struck me, no pun intended, was how resolute teachers are and paraprofessionals are about, this is a fight to ensure that kids, their kids, their communities have what they need.

And I'm seeing that across the country with the need to increase standards so that we're doing much more project-based learning and deep and richer learning, something that I know Roy has been advocating, but yet at the same time poverty increasing and the cuts in schools almost making it -- making it incredibly hard for us to do our jobs, and then being blamed when we can't do our jobs.

JEFFREY BROWN: Well, Roy Romer, at a more specific level, a lot of this seems to be around things like hours of the day, the number of hours worked, and teacher evaluations. What do you see when you look at Chicago?

ROY ROMER, former superintendent, Los Angeles Unified School District: I think we need to extend the hours of the school day.

I think we just need that more time to do the job for those children. I think the real issue out there is whether you use tests for a part of the evaluation.

I think we need multiple measures to evaluate teachers. We have got to do a better job of evaluating teachers. And we ought to use tests to determine what progress a student has made.

JEFFREY BROWN: Randi Weingarten, speak to that specifically, yes.

RANDI WEINGARTEN: Right.

So, Roy, you know I love you.

ROY ROMER: Yes.

RANDI WEINGARTEN: But the teachers have already agreed to the longer day. The issue is making sure that that day is actually used for the right things.

And right now in Chicago, a city, by the way, that's had mayoral control for 15 years, a city that has tremendous management rights and top-down authority -- but between -- what the teachers were telling me is between 15 and 25 days, the equivalent of 15 to 25 days, are being used for test prep.

Now, as Roy knows, we think that there should be multiple measures and evaluations and that we need to have evaluations that go to both, have I taught it and have kids learned it?

So, the issue is really making sure an evaluation system is comprehensive and fair and about continuous improvement, not tied significantly to one measure, meaning these old tests that no longer measure what kids are supposed to know and be able to do.

ROY ROMER: Randi is right that the old tests are inadequate. We need better tests, but a test's primary purpose is to help the child learn during the next period of instruction.

But we also need to evaluate teachers and test data ought to be a part of multiple measures. You have got to be very careful and cautious how you do this, because, otherwise, they will game the system.

JEFFREY BROWN: Well, let me stay with you. A lot of the focus has been -- in Chicago and beyond -- has been whether the teachers unions are resisting changes and reforms such as that. You have argued that in the past. Where do you see the resistance and how does it play out?

ROY ROMER: Well, Randi has been one of the persons who has been trying to move unions forward on this. But I have got to tell you, there's a lot of variety of opinion.

And we ought not be in this strike out there. We ought not. We ought to be settling this on the negotiating table. And we have to include some multiple measures for teacher evaluation. Hopefully, Randi is out there and she can bring this to an end. It ought to be brought to an end by negotiation.

JEFFREY BROWN: Randi Weingarten?

RANDI WEINGARTEN: Well, look, no one -- and no one wants a strike. And it is unfortunate that it has gotten to this point. And it was unfortunate all the things that led up to it, including the mayor's taking away a raise, trying to unilaterally implement the extended day.

But the parties are working hard at the table. I went over to the bargaining table for a bit today. I'm in Chicago to really do not only a fact-finding, but obviously to support the teachers and the paraprofessionals.

But let me just say the teachers want to be in classrooms, but they want to make sure that they have the tools to do their job. And they want to make sure the kids have the tools to do their jobs.

JEFFREY BROWN: But, again, I want to go -- broaden it more naturally, Randi Weingarten.

RANDI WEINGARTEN: Right.

JEFFREY BROWN: There's a sense out there -- and you hear it from politicians and you hear it from people on the street -- that the teachers union is resisting such changes, specifically the teacher evaluation and such things as that. And we see it in different cities.

RANDI WEINGARTEN: Right. It's just not true. Look, people have been asking me this all week long.

There are districts upon districts and unions upon unions that have agreed to teacher evaluations throughout this country. You have had Connecticut, New York, and New Jersey all change their teacher evaluation systems this year with the work of teacher unions.

What the teacher unions have asked for is that teachers are actually being treated fairly and they actually have the tools and conditions they need. And what you're seeing is you're seeing a lot of big city mayors resist that because they don't want to spend the money on it.

Ultimately, if we're going to change to have these new standards, which is what Roy and I have both championed, so that kids are applying knowledge, not just knowing things, we need to have the time to make sure that that gets done right, and same with evaluations.

You can't just have a press conference and say we now have a new evaluation system. We have to actually make sure we do these things correctly and collaboratively. And that's what teacher unions throughout the country are trying to do -- or at least the teacher unions that I'm involved with are trying to do.

JEFFREY BROWN: So why do you still see resistance and why is there that sense abroad that...

ROY ROMER: Well, the teachers union in Chicago, I don't think has the approach that Randi Weingarten does.

I think she's on the right track. Namely, we need to have this multiple evaluation. We ought to involve teachers in designing the system. But we ought to do it and do it quickly and get those kids back in school in Chicago.

JEFFREY BROWN: All right.

RANDI WEINGARTEN: Right. And, unfortunately, unfortunately -- I'm sorry to interrupt, Roy -- I think that's what is happening at the bargaining table now.

But why did it take a strike deadline to do that? These folks have been bargaining for months and months and months. And just in the last few days, I have seen real progress. I have been monitoring it a lot, been on the phone all last weekend.

No one wants a strike. A strike hurts everyone. But we want to make sure we get it right for kids. And that's what the Chicago teachers...

JEFFREY BROWN: Let me ask Roy Romer, has -- you have been on the political side of this as well and have actually...

ROY ROMER: Yes.

JEFFREY BROWN: Is there a political shift under way? I mean, you can't help but think about this in the midst of a campaign. And here we have a he Democratic mayor, Rahm Emanuel, ties to the White House, has been part of the reform. The unions have been friends, allies to the Democratic Party. And here's a fight.

ROY ROMER: This is a local issue.

I don't want to get national politics and debate in on it. I think city by city, state by state, we need to solve these problems. And I think we can solve these problems. We're making progress.

But the key thing is we have got to think about these kids. They're not getting a good enough education. We need to be radical in the change that we are bringing to the table.

JEFFREY BROWN: Randi Weingarten, do you see yourself in some sense fighting both parties now?

RANDI WEINGARTEN: Look, I think Roy is right. This is a local issue. It has national ramifications.

But you noticed the first thing Mitt Romney, who doesn't want to invest in public education -- the first thing did is try to nationalize this issue and try to get President Obama in there.

And President Obama rightly said or his campaign rightly said this is a local issue that has to be solved at the negotiating table. One size doesn't fit all.

But we do want to make sure that teachers are the best they can be. We want to make sure they get support. And we want to make sure the kids get what they need so that they can achieve their dreams.

JEFFREY BROWN: All right, Randi Weingarten, Roy Romer, thanks both very much.

ROY ROMER: Thank you very much.

RANDI WEINGARTEN: Thank you.

JEFFREY BROWN: And, for the record, we invited Mayor Emanuel to appear on the program this evening. His office didn't respond to our request.